follow the money: Anthrax, Testament, Machine Head: a chat with Seamus from Excuse All the Blood metal music show

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Metal Bulletin Zine asked Seamus what he thinks about about the so-called integrity in metal and all the talk about metal being "true" and whatnot.

QUESTION by Metal Bulletin Zine: Seamus, I wonder what your perspective on this topic is: metal people talk about "keeping it metal" and seem to believe that metal music is somehow different from pop or country music because metal people supposedly have honesty or integrity or all that stuff. On this topic, what do you think about a band like Testament, Anthrax or Machine Head? When it was cool to be thrash back in the 80s, they were on the bandwagon, "metal thrashing mad" and Robb Flynn in Vio-lence and Testament was a "baby Metallica." thrash, thrash, thrash, blah, blah, blah.

Then, thrash is out in 1990 or so, now they turn alternative/grunge like Anthrax or groove rock like Machine Head and once again copying Metallica, Testament goes midpaced with "Souls of Black" and "The Ritual" a (must have the world black, like the black album)--all three in their own way desperately trying to be hip and cool with "the kids."

Aren't these people more like hucksters who will do anything for money? Hey, if it's necessary to rap in order to be cool, so be it, they will rap, like Anthrax and Machine Head, and even wear jumpsuits and nu metal dreadlocks like Robb Flynn (again, doing whatever he can to be cool and hip). Or, Testament--sensing that they need to be heavy again--goes in a groove direction, death metal-ish direction with "Low" because they have to save their reputation, right?

Then, once it's acceptable to be metal again, they start using pentagrams--Anthrax using pentagramas!--because wearing flannel is longer the in thing (remember Stomp 442 and those videos?), so now Anthrax is metal again, after having repeatedly denied in the 90s that they were a metal band. Hey, fire a guy that is uncool with the 90s image, hire a different guy that is more "modern," then fire that second guy, and get back the old guy because he's cool again, apparently. And that's after consistently slandering the old guy and saying he does not sing like a real man, but go ahead and hire him again, even though for years they went around calling him not a real man because he sings like a "bird" and not a "lion."

Now, Testament is "thrash this" and "thrash that" and dark roots of thrash this or that, and wearing retro denim jackets to show they are down the metal crowd. "Remember us, we invented this genre!" Yeah, right. And Machine Head, well, they are metal again, after jumping ship from nu metal and hip hop. I guess hip hop jumpsuits are not cool, now, I don't know; it's difficult to keep up with fashions.

Seamus, you have been around the block, what have you observed about these things? It is very impolite in metal to bring up these topics, but I don't care if people are offended. What is your take on these bands? There are other bands I could mention, but I wonder if in your years of seeing trends come and go and bands do all sorts of gimmicks, what you have seen about these things.

ANSWER by Seamus

I lived in the Bay Area when Machine hit it big. Before they hit, I saw them at Berkeley Square and The Stone. I saw them with Possessed. Then 'Burn My Eyes' just came out and I saw them opening for Obituary/Napalm Death. I saw them with Slayer-all for 'Burn My Eyes'. They were local and were sort of heroes to a lot of the metalheads there. Other local bands like Testament and Laaz Rockit (who I LOVE) were sort of seen as passe, not by me but to many. On 'The More Things Change' tour I saw them open for Megadeth and then tour with COC. I liked the song' Davidian' but that macho metal thing wasn't for me. I got why people liked them-on those early albums. In college the drummer of my band played me 'The Burning Red' and I had no idea who it was! They definitely went trendy, as did many bands.

I hear you about Anthrax-get rid of Joey for John (although I prefer the John stuff-Sound of White Noise at least). I loved that album and was let down by Stomp 442. I tried so hard to like that album! They went softer but kind of alternative too.

As I've said before [in a previous segment published by Metal Bulletin Zine], Testament were my Beatles but they changed too. I don't mind 'Souls of Black'-Face in the Sky is a great song. 'The Ritual' is tough although Electric Crown rules.

The Black Album and Pantera ruined mainstream metal for a long time. Metallica is from my home town-El Cerrito, CA. I used to drive by their old house all the time, across the street from Nation's Burgers. I went through a major Pantera phase but everyone wanted to be like one of those two bands. Metallica hit it SO big and a lot of the bands that they used to tour with or knew (Testament and Anthrax certainly) wanted to capture that financial magic. I read Alex Skolnick's book and it bothered him that Testament never went in a catchier or more mainstream direction. Metallica is playing stadiums while Alex is living at home still. It's easy to say "stay true to your thrash roots" as a fan but as a musician, living with your parents when you're 30 isn't cool. Back then there wasn't much money in music, nor is there now I guess.

Testament was THE band but I saw them play to fifty people at the Berkeley Square. They weren't making money. I think Chuck worked for the Post Office or something like that. Maybe bands like them sold out or sacrificed their integrity but bills need to be paid. That's a difficult situation-you want to gain more fans but by alienating your diehard audience?

I used to work at Necropolis Records-they put out Witchery, Dawn (such a great band), The Black, a lot of great bands. These guys LIVED AND DIED metal! Matt Harvey from Exhumed worked in the warehouse with me, along with Jason from the band Deadbodieseverywhere. The promo guy, Joker Lokison, lived in a garage I think. It's a tough life. When you're 20 and have no real responsibilities, thrash away! If you're in your 30's and have a family, do what you need to do to make a buck. I'm supposing that was the logic many bands had. As a fan I didn't like it but I get it. Hell, Megadeth went super weird on the 'Risk' album and had incredibly stupid songs off of 'Cryptic Writings'. I know you don't like Mustaine but I still love the first few albums. Those guys had money and they still went in a more mainstream direction.

I hear you about bands like that now claiming how metal they were when they disowned the genre for awhile. It bothered me when they turned their back on the genre (Lars' favorite band was Oasis in the 90's!) but doesn't really bother me if they now talk about how metal they are. They once were very damn metal and most people end up where they started. I still go back to the music I fell in love with over newer bands.

I love Testament but haven't listened to their newer albums more than two or three times. I listen to 'The Legacy' all the time-it's the finest thrash metal album ever recorded by the finest thrash metal band ever. I see them every time they come to town and want them to play 'COTLOD', not anything new. Great, Joey is back in Anthrax but I never cared about their last album with him. I don't care much about any newer Megadeth releases but if Nick and Marty came back, then I'd be interested since that was MY era of Megadeth.

What bothers me more is when newer bands claim to be oldschool. Maybe I'm just old and can't relate but that seems far more insincere. A few days ago I saw a 15 year old wearing a jean jacket with an 'Annihilator' patch. Does he really listen to Annihilator or is he just trying to appear like he loves the old thrash scene? This summer I went to Mayhemfest (to see Body Count)[Metal Bullletin Zine says, "What the heck did you just say?!] and a mainstream band like Suicide Silence talks about their love for Cannibal Corpse. I don't know anything about Suicide Silence but I wonder if they can recite all the song titles off 'Butched At Birth'. Maybe they can-I'm just using them as an example, but I think newer bands or newer fans try to give themselves cred by claiming to be oldschool. That annoys me more than Testament trying to recapture their past.

THE END. [For now, ha ha!]